Adjusting to the Super Turbo when it’s slow

So what happens when you play a super-turbo and the players are 1) tight or limpy rather than aggressive early, and 2) sloooow making decisions?

Then the blinds go up even faster as you play fewer hands at each blind level. By the third orbit you might be down to half a stack already and yet to play a hand, but the table still has 6 or 7 players. That means the blinds come around slower, but it also means that you spend time in early position with few chips, and your shoves have to get through 5 others, some of whom are as desperate as you.

This has happened a couple of times lately playing these super-turbos on Fulltilt. It might be partly a result of playing during the weekday evenings as opposed to during the day the first dozen times I played. Maybe the players are tighter/less donkish/less panicced about the blinds in the evenings than on the weekends. Whatever the reason, I need to have a strategy for when this seems to be playing out.

One thing I’m learning is that it’s not necessary to shove right off the bat. That if I have chips, and especially if the table seems tight, I can make standard 3x raises with hands that I’m not prepared to die with (ATs from earlyish position, for example) but that I can’t bring myself to fold. If I look at my chip stack, have enough to raise and still have enough behind to fold to a shove, then a raise/fold is fine, one time.

If the table is limpy, I need to find some situations to get involved before I run out of chips. Raising an unopened pot even from mid is probably the optimal situation. The others are

1. raising limpers from late,
2. shoving from the blinds over min-raises, or
3. calling limpers more from late position or from SB, or
4. calling min-raises from the BB,

none of which are very appealing.

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(Later addition)

There will always be unaware players who limp/complete/minbet even after they fall down to 5 or even less BBs in standard tourney situations. Since the starting stacks are only 10 BBs (and maybe effectively less if I get seated UTG or in the blinds to start) I think I need to set a lower threshold for playing. In other words, a lower level at which I’m still willing to play if I fold to a shove over my steal/raise. Maybe a level like 3 current BBs? I want to allow myself to get in some hands earlier, especially at a tight or limpy table, without committing myself to do or die just yet, just because I know that if I just can get near the bubble with a few chips I can usually fare well. This has to be balanced with the fact that I need to pick up just a few chips once to get to that point.

The shallow stacks all the way around make it possible to play with lower Ms, but obviously if you get down to 2 BBs, anyone with chips in the BB has to call you.

Last game I thought I was going to get to this situation. Marginal to bad hands, raises or limps-with-callers ahead of my stealing hands/situations (remembering not to overestimate fold equity from limpers at these levels). Blech. Got chipped down to 3 BBs or so without playing a hand. Finally shoved KK from late position, and since I had few chips the BB had to call and I doubled up. A few hands later the big stack, who had been shoving once an orbit or so since taking the chip lead, shoves and I call with JJ, which holds up over his A7 and I become marginal chip leader, just like that. Then I’m set to play my standard late game style; raising, and pressuring, with the advantage being that I played no hands early and only showed down strong hands to get the chip lead so that when I make the shift to looser/aggressive I get a lot of credit.

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(Later-later addition)

Still the only thing I’ve been playing the last few days, largely due to lack of time for anything else. I’ll be interested to see how the game changes when I play on the weekend, when I can play earlier in the day. The games have been tougher than when I first started these last weekend (my ROI has dropped to 20% on these) and I think that there’s some better players in these recently. Of course there’s also standard variance (my better hands were holding up in the early games, as opposed to my AK losing to A9 that hit two pair last night or my A7 shove shortstacked that lost to a flopped straight with at KJ).

Little mistakes can make a difference. A few days back I shoved a decent shoving hand, but I was a short stack on the bubble and another person had less than one BB. This is questionable, though I’ve had it go the other way where you wait for a tiny stack to go out, but then they get lucky and triple up and now I’m the tiny stack and I’ve missed a shoving opportunity. Or, heads up I meant to shove Ax against someone that was fairly weak and who had just completed from the SB. But, I hit the wrong button and min-raised. He called with his T8s and flopped top pair which I obviously couldn’t c-bet him off of.

Last night an opponent made a mistake which worked in my favor. He had just over 2 BBs and was in the blind, so almost half his stack already committed. I had not much more; about 3 BBs and shoved JTs, thinking I’ve got to make a move at some point. Big stack in the SB calls me, and BB stupidly calls as well.

Almost regardless of what he has, he should fold here, imo. I’ve shoved, a big stack has called, we’re on the bubble, he should stay out of the way and hope that I go out. As it was it was even worse as he J4o so his J was dominated by me. Big stack had Kxo and no one caught so both of us were eliminated, but because I had more chips before the hand I got third and he got nothing.

It’s Situational

Originally I wrote this back when I was in the middle of my “Odds and Outs” series, and delayed posting it so as not to interfere with the series. And then I kinda forgot about it.

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As one progresses thru life one often reflects on things, once in a while an “Aha” happens. Aha, why wasn’t I more aware of how that perspective applies all the time?

This happened for me with the word “situational“. I suddenly became aware of how that single word applies to every hand of every poker game. Yesterday, playing a cheap SnG I was chipped down but hit a set from the BB and doubled up. Next hand I get AA in the SB, two limpers, I opt to only raise 2 BB to 2.5 BB in a mix between building the pot and making a proper raise (which in this case should have been 3BB plus 1 for each limper so a 5.5 BB raise to 6BBs, maybe more as I’m OOP). BB calls, limpers call and I realize I raised too little. Flop comes three medium-small cards, all clubs and I have the Ace of clubs. I shove, BB calls with a flopped set, no additional club comes and I’m out.

There are standard plays for given types of situations. These standard plays are based on relative strengths of each hand and expected logical plays of the other players, and assuming a standard range and mix of hands belonging to the other players. Raise AA preflop to eliminate weak hands that could draw out on you because all good hands lose strength the more players there are in the pot. But raise more if there are limpers otherwise you give them pot odds that are too good. Re-raise if there’s a raise ahead of you. Don’t shove in all your chips unless you’re short stacked or are playing weak players who might call with any two suited cards because you can get more value from someone who might catch top pair. But, you can limp AA from early position at an aggressive table where someone will likely raise behind you and you can 4-bet them. Or limp from late position or the blinds if no one else is showing strength as a means of trapping for value. I’ve also min-raised players with AA/KK for the same reason as a value raise that I think that they can’t fold. And there are more variables, like bubbles, weak or strong opponents, table image, stack sizes of opponents, ect. It’s situational.

That’s what made poker so difficult to learn when I was starting out. There is a decision tree for every hand, even just preflop. At one point I considered trying to draw out a decision tree for every hand preflop but it was really complicated. The way I seem to be keeping up on this blog, I still might get around to it, but not any time soon.

I guess that’s one of the things that I’m trying to accomplish by still playing a variety of levels, sites, and types of NLHE. I’m putting myself in different situations against different types of players, especially weak players, and trying to learn the most optimal way of playing against them. One of the things that I try to keep in mind this way is the wild range of approaches that players come to the table with. One example that sticks in my mind is the wide split between what loose and tight players will raise or call with at $25NL. I’ve made all kinds of blog postings that point in this direction. Other recent posts that come to mind include the table of good players agreeing to sit at $25NLHE to compare hands, as well as all the freeroll and most of the micro-limit entries.

It’s situational. The cards, your position, your experiences at that particular site and buy-in level, your reads, stack sizes, your image, recent plays by you and by those still in the hand, all these and more are factors that go into determining the best decision at that particular moment. Stay in the moment, don’t be replaying some other hand from your past or some other opponent from the past. Draw on your experiences to help you to evaluate the situation, but keep your advice for yourself within the context of the current situation.

Bet the Set on the straight flop for value, and some Reverse Implied Odds

I don’t usually post hand histories in here but there are some interesting things that happened in this hand.

Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: HTML)

CO ($38.75)
Hero ($33.35)
Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Jc, Jd.
1 fold, MPA raises to $1, 1 fold, CO calls $1, 3 folds.

Max buy-in is $25 so I’m up. I raise JJ from UTG +1 (or MP1 as the converter is calling it because the table is 7 handed). CO, who has me covered and has had this since before I sat down at the table, calls.

Flop: ($2.35) Tc, Js, Qs (2 players)
MPA bets $1.5, CO calls $1.50.

Very scary flop but I’ve picked up a set. My immediate concern is he’s got AK for a made straight. Even so, I’ve got outs. Playing at this level and without a good read I feel I have to bet in the event that he has a weak Ace with a gutshot draw, or the spade flush draw. My bet is on the smallish side, possibly I viewed it as a blocking bet if he’s ahead as well as a a value bet to charge him if he’s drawing.

What I didn’t consider at the time is that there’s also a host of other hands that I’m ahead of that probably won’t fold and I can make money from: 99/TT/T9/JT/QJ/KQ/AQ/AJ/AT, possibly in combination with a flush draw. This is something for me to learn; a made straight on the board means there are a lot of straight draws, especially in combination with a pair, that are going to be willing to pay me off to see more cards. They may even semibluff a made straight here with all the outs that they have.

Turn: ($5.35) 7h (2 players).
MPA bets $3, CO calls $3.

Keep charging him in case he’s drawing. He calls, so he has something, making me more suspicious that I’m behind a made straight.

River: ($11.35) Ts (2 players)
MPA bets $6, CO raises to $18, MPA raises to $27.85, CO calls $9.85.

The second Ten gives me a full house so now I’m ahead of a straight. I bet, he raises so I shove and he calls. He was pretty confident with his hand on the river too, probably thinking that I had AK and he was behind a straight from the beginning.

Final Pot: $67.05
Hero has Jc Jd (full house, jacks full of tens).
CO has Qd Th (full house, tens full of queens).
Outcome: Hero wins $67.05.

I didn’t play this brilliantly. I narrowed the villain’s range too tight without seeing a whole range of pair/OESD hands that I should be giving worse odds to. I only got confident when the second Ten hit because I was afraid of AK from the beginning.

The other big thing to point out is the bad situation my opponent was in right from the flop. All because he called with a poor hand for calling a raise, even in position. On the river his play is fine as you can’t fold a full house. Pretty unlucky for him to lose to a higher full house.

But, bad policy to call someone who has a full stack, who hasn’t shown himself to be loose (at least I don’t think I had been playing loose), and who raises from early position, when all you’re holding is QT. This is an awful flop for him because one of the most likely hands for me to be holding is AK and all he has is two pair, and even without me having AK he was behind me right on the flop.

Basically with the preflop call he’s putting his whole stack at risk when he catches the second best hand as he did both on the flop and on the river.