Taking Super Turbo strategy to Short Stack Full Ring poker

After a downswong with the super turbos I made a try at 4 tabling $25NL playing with $5 (20 BBs).

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The downswing took place over 8 missed ITMs over 2 playing periods. Anytime I miss ITMing too many in a row, in this case 4, I stop, at least for a hour or maybe a day. I don’t know that I go on tilt at this point, but what I’m hoping to avoid is clearly going on tilt, which I suspect that I might do if I miss too many in a row. In other words, after missing 4 I might not be on tilt, but if I miss one more, or if I get sucked out on with a bad call in the next one, I’m more likely to be on tilt so I want to stop before I get there.

Obviously I’m not multitabling these or 4 wouldn’t be my stopping point. And I’m placing a lot of attention/focus on these or 4 wouldn’t be a stopping point either.

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But the short stack tables were interesting, though I only played a few hands. After that I had stacked up a bit on 2 of the tables so I left all of them. Part of the short stack strategy is to leave after you win because you can no longer use the full strength of playing short stack and at the same time you don’t have a full stack to use the strength of a full buyin. I guess if the table was juicy enough you could rebuy to a full stack and keep playing. Basically in between stack sizes I don’t see as useful at all unless you are a rookie and are trying to protect yourself from yourself.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold’em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com – Hand History Converter

• BTN: $26.50
• SB: $5
• BB: $7.95
• UTG: $27.75
• UTG+1: $31.25
• Hero (MP1): $4.65
• MP2: $8.10
• CO: $21.05

Pre-Flop: 99 dealt to Hero (MP1)

UTG calls $0.25, UTG+1 calls $0.25,

• A limp and a call ahead of me. I’m likely up against mid/low pocket pairs, two big cards, or suited connectors so I decide I’m ahead of enough of the range to show that I have a hand.

Hero raises to $1.35, 5 folds, UTG raises to $4, UTG+1 folds,

• everyone folds except UTG who wants me all in, I think. One of the reasons that I chose to try this as $25NL is because that’s were I played full ring most recently so I have the best chance of being able to read the players. I still put him on the same range of hands. $25NL is a bad level to slowplay AA/KK from early position because players aren’t agressive enough and won’t raise you to isolate. QQ/JJ/TT is a possibility but so are 88 and down which I dominate, and two big cards which I’m on the plus side of a coin flip with.
• And here’s where the deceptive part of me playing short stack comes in, as I’m better in general than most short stack players. Most don’t know how to play well and are only playing with a short stack because they don’t want to lose too much and are more than willing to lose the minimum buyin for a shot with A-rag. There’s a definite possibility that he’s reading me as one of these players overvaluing AT and down, possibly suited.

Hero raises to $4.65 and is All-In, UTG calls $0.65

He had AJs which missed and I doubled up.

Afterwards I was thinking, I’m on the plus side of a coin flip, but in a ring game I want to take that edge. In a super turbo against bad players, I don’t necessarily want to take that coin flip, especially early there’s a better chance for me to outplay them later.

Here’s another one.

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold’em Cash Game, 9 Players
LeggoPoker.com – Hand History Converter

• SB: $4.75
• BB: $19.85
• UTG: $14.15
• UTG+1: $25.25
• UTG+2: $32.75
• MP1: $18.45
• MP2: $40.05
• CO: $24.90

Hero (BTN): $5.25

Pre-Flop: KA dealt to Hero (BTN)

5 folds, CO raises to $1,

Here I’ve taken the blinds or something so I’m up one BB. I wanted to 3-bet, but then realized that doing so would leave me with $2.

Hero raises to $5.25 and is All-In, 3 folds

I dunno if the CO was cursing me under his breath, but 3-betting would be silly with my stack size. It’s also possible that he was stealing with something marginal. Since that’s possible, I definitely have fold equity. Just calling behind with AK is fine, if you have a full stack and so does the other guy. But if I call here the pot is already $2.35 with the blinds yet to play and I’ve only got $4 left. I don’t have enough left to float, so one of the advantages of having position is gone.

Another point; being all-in I negate my positional advantage, but really, with a short stack I have no positional advantage except with a limped pot, otherwise the pot is too large relative to my remaining stack to be of a threat to anyone.

June 30, 08

Super turbo play = short stack cash game play?

I’ve made attempts in the past to learn to play short stacked ring strategy and never really been too successful with it. In particular, when Full Tilt had a short extra bonus period I tried to earn some points and bonus by short stacking 4 tables. Didn’t work too well; I lost more than I earned in bonus.

Today I was idly wondering whether my practice with the super turbos would help me with short stack ring play, but I’m not sure about that. Of course I could always give it a try.

• Everyone is short in a SupT. Does that affect the calling range? The risk of getting eliminated is high so calling ranges should be tighter, but the turbo aspect tends to pressure players to take risks making some players looser with their ranges.

I dunno; I often play almost no hands in the first 2 orbits, then find myself hoping for a good situation to shove and pick up some blinds. That’s not much different from my memory of attempting to play short stack ring, ‘cept I can wait much longer at ring games.

• The blind rise, and fast in a SupT. This puts on even more pressure to shove/fold/chip up.

The later stages don’t connect to well to short stack cash game play. Desperation, bubble, huge blinds relative to stacks size, not applicable.

• There is virually no post-flop play on my part in the SupT. Only HU or limped into my BB do I ever get post-flop.

I don’t know whether the aggression here translates to short stack ring or not. I may be short, but presumably the other players are not. In a SupT I may shove any pair on the flop or CRAI but again, desperation is a factor on all player’s parts. Not necessarily so in ring.

But, maybe so, and maybe this is where I’m losing some value in short stack ring games? Maybe I need to be shoving even marginal catches of a flop?

June 29 2008

Completed: 40 $3.50+.30 Super Turbo Sit and Goes

I ran two earlier “projects”, the Bet/Raise/Fold exercise and the $1 Turbo Sit and Go project, and after both projects reviewed some statistics after 40 games. Now I’ve played 40 of the new Super Turbos on Full Tilt so I thought that I should review the stats on these as well.

• Total cost: = 152.00
• Total return: = 182.65
• Net profit: = 30.65
• ROI: = 20%
• ITMs: = 19, 47.5%

Finishes:

1. 5
2. 5
3. 9
4. 6
5. 5
6. 6
7. 0
8. 3
9. 1

A lot of 3rds; probably too many. But it becomes difficult ITM to continue to steal blinds and be aggressive as the players become more willing to call. Basically the results are all skewered around 1 – 6 place, with a few outliers. The one 9th I remember raising from early with AK, late position shove and I called. He had 88 and held up to win. It’s a coinflip, but if I feel that I can raise and then fold to a shove, then I should fold. Otherwise I just should have shoved to begin with unless I’m trying to get action with AA/KK.

June 17, 2008